The Child Code with Dr. Danielle Dick

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And we are officially recording. Hello, and welcome to the Balancing Act podcast,

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now hosted by our California besties, the team at Human Content.

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Hey, Human Content. How are you? Hey, Human Content. East Coast, West Coast.

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You're very animated today. So today, there was some music playing in the cafeteria

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and there might've been California love by, uh, Tupac Shakur playing, which is a jam.

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And somebody just had to go into the cafeteria and I couldn't help myself.

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I have to text, um, I have to text our boss and tell her like that was,

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you talk about like setting your day off on the right foot.

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Yeah. I mean, you couldn't undo that joy today. You just could not undo it.

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Yeah. You were, you were all into it today. It was, It was a big day for you. My little Leslie Knope.

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So Joe and I are both very big fans of Parks and Recreation and Leslie Knope.

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She is a queen and pretty enthusiastic.

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I do feel that way, that I'm pretty enthusiastic.

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But maybe as it gets closer to Valentine's Day, we'll talk about,

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or maybe are we after Valentine's Day?

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Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what day it is.

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January 97. or at least that's what it feels like. So true.

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So we do have a guest with us today, which... Our favorite days,

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our guest days. Our favorite guest days, yes.

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It's very exciting today to talk to our guest because there's going to be some

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science involved in this one.

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I'm a science nerd, so this will be fun. So let's bring her in.

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Hello, Dr. Danielle Dick. Thank you very much for joining us on the Balancing

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Act podcast today. How are you? I am good. Excited to be here with y'all.

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Welcome to The Balancing Act. We're so happy to have you.

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And we can't wait to hear all about the book that we can see right behind you.

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That is your, that you are the author of The Child's Code.

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And can you maybe tell us a little bit about your, your background,

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educational, personal, whatever, you know, you're, you're willing to share? Yeah.

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Absolutely. So my day job, as I would say, is I'm a professor at Rutgers University

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in the Department of Psychiatry, and I direct the Rutgers Addiction Research

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Center, which is actually the largest addiction research center in the world.

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And my own work is on genetic and environmental influences on human behavior.

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So I do everything from leading big gene identification projects where we're

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trying to find the genes involved and why some people are more at risk for certain outcomes than others.

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And a lot of my work is on substance use outcomes, but also child behavior problems.

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And other sorts of depression, impulsivity, ADHD, those kinds of outcomes are the things that I study.

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And so we're learning a lot about the underlying biology of that.

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And then I do a lot of longitudinal developmental studies of kids.

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So what do kids that are carrying different genetic predispositions look like as they're growing up?

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And importantly, what kinds of environments either increase risk or reduce risk?

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And then ultimately, how can we use all that to develop more informed prevention,

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intervention, and treatment?

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But at the end of the day, I'm really interested in the differences between

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all of us and our kids. And really what led me to write this book is that in

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addition to being a scientist, I'm also a mom.

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And when I had my son, oh, the irony, I found myself raising the high-risk child that I study.

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You know, highly impulsive, highly emotional.

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And knowing the research was such, you know, it was really, it was what saved my sanity.

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And I looked around and all of a sudden, as a parent, I started paying attention

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to, you know, the actual what was out there in mainstream parenting and on blogs and shows and whatnot.

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And I was struck by how little of the research from the world that I lived in,

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you know, at work was actually getting out into parenting and education.

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And so that's really what led me to write this book was I'm very passionate

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about how we can both advance scientific discovery,

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but how we can get that to people in ways that is user friendly and that people

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can understand and apply to their lives.

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I think the like one of the first things you said was like, oh,

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the largest addiction research center in the world here at Rutgers University. And I was like, what?

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It was just, you know, anything that gives any notoriety to the great state

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that I've lived my entire life in is is fine by me.

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But like, I did, I did not know that and would have expected there to be,

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I assume there are other facilities or research centers around the world that

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do similar things that what Rutgers does. Correct?

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I would assume. Yes. So there's several addiction research centers.

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In fact, the directors of lots of these addiction research centers, we meet every month.

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But yes, I want this to not be the best kept secret that Rutgers actually has

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now the biggest addiction research center in the world.

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And really what we, we have about 150 researchers who do everything from basic

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neuroscience and genetics, all the way through to, you know,

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studying adolescents, you know, kids, adolescents,

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how risk unfolds across development, to studying prevention,

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treatment, recovery, policy.

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So we really span that entire spectrum. And that's what, I grew up all around the world,

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but that's what excited me about moving to Rutgers was to really build and lead

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this center because we can do things when you have just, you know,

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this breadth of expertise in ways that,

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you know, you really can't do anywhere else.

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You know, we can understand the biology and then take that into both medication

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development, but also thinking about prevention programs for kids,

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early screening, let's stop problems before they start, etc.

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So those are a lot of the things that we're working on and that I'm really passionate about.

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I'm curious how you come to have the children that you can actually track, follow research.

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So we do it in a number of different ways.

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And so there are some big national studies in the United States.

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Most of these are sponsored by the National Institutes of Health.

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And so as one example, there is a big study called ABCD, Adolescent Behavior

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and Cognitive Development.

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And there were multiple sites across the country,

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so academic research centers, and they enrolled kids and they did it by recruiting

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through Richmond, Virginia, where I happened to live before,

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was one of the recruitment sites.

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I had several friends whose kids were in the study.

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They enrolled kids through schools, through a variety of different ways where

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they were trying to reach diverse groups of kids that

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And they enrolled them starting at age 9, 10.

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And they would bring them in for a whole battery of everything from brain imaging

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scans to surveys that parents filled out, that kids filled out.

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And then they've tracked them every couple years. And so they're essentially

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studying both brain development but also behavior across time.

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And they'll track them through in another year or so they'll be 17,

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18. So we'll have one of the biggest studies are about 10,000 kids that were

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enrolled of, you know, kids behavior and brain development across time.

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And there's also genotypic data that's collected. So we can look at things like,

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you know, how do kids genes.

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Their brain development, their, you know, social environmental factors,

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how do those all relate to one another to influence, you know,

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how well kids are doing, you know, their behavior, places where they're thriving.

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And places where they're having challenges as well. That's just one example.

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There's a lot of different studies like that, each which have their own kind

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of little twist. Some of them do school-based recruitment.

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Some of them recruit through big population registries or even driver's license registries.

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So there's a number of different studies like that that we work on.

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Some of them are actually recruited.

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For example, I have a big family-based study that's recruited where a parent

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had a substance use disorder, and then they studied the whole family.

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So sometimes we're recruiting based on a characteristic and trying to understand family dynamics there.

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And sometimes we're really just following big groups of kids across time to

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study general population health and development.

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I'm assuming that the research you did for your book did not happen overnight.

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I'm assuming it took some time for you to compile the research and the findings.

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How long did it take you to really kind of hone into or what your theory was

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behind the book, The Child Code?

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How long did it take you to kind of put that research together and compile all your data?

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Yeah. So the book is based not just on my own research.

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The book is really about trying to bring the findings from our field to the general public.

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And this is because when I looked around at the messages that we give to parents,

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a lot of it is all focused on environmental things, right?

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Like things you should be doing or shouldn't be doing.

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And those are very important things.

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But the piece that I was really struck by is that nobody was talking about how

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the other really big thing that influences kids' behavior is their genes.

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So, you know, we're not all blank slates when we're born.

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We are all born with a unique genetic code. And that influences,

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you know, not just the differences we can see on our outsides,

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right? We're all really similar.

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You know, most of us have two eyes and 10 fingers and 10 toes and internal organs and all of that.

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You know, we're similar in a lot of ways, but there's a lot of ways that we can, that we're unique.

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You know, our hair color, our body sizes, types, you know, why we're more or

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less at risk for particular diseases.

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Well, our brains are equally unique. Our genes influence the way that our brains develop.

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And so that means every child has a brain that's wired differently.

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And so when we look at what influences child development, and that is true whether we're looking at

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You know, impulsivity, how impulsive kids are, how fearful they are,

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how anxious they are, how extroverted they are, almost every behavior that's been studied.

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We can look at how important are genes and how important is the environment.

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And a rough rule of thumb is it's almost always 50-50, right?

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And what that means is that if you take something like impulsivity,

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about half of the differences between kids in how impulsive they are is due

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to differences in the unique genetic codes that they were born with.

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And then the other half is due to differences in their environments that are

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influencing those behaviors.

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And in parenting, I feel like a lot of the messages we get are all focused on

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the environmental pieces, but we're totally not talking about the importance

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of genetics on kids' behavior.

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And I think that's a huge mistake. And that's what really led me to write this book.

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And I think it's a big mistake, you know, kind of for what I think of as,

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you know, a few big reasons.

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You know, one is that I think it causes a lot of guilt and, you know,

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shame and hurt on the part of parents when our kids are struggling,

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the number of parents that are like, you know, what am I doing wrong?

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You know, what have I done or not done that my child's having all these challenges

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in school or, you know, my child's getting in trouble all the time or my child's

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throwing massive temper tantrums in the grocery store and, you know,

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I'm getting dirty looks from other parents.

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You know, I think it can really cause a lot of, you know, guilt and judgment

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that we both put on ourselves and candidly, if we're honest,

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that we put on other parents too, right?

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We've probably all seen that child throwing a massive fit at the store and,

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you know, you look at the child and you look at the parent and you think,

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oh, that parent really needs to, you know, fill in your favorite parenting advice.

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And the reality is that, you know, what works for your child

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it may not work for another child. And that parent might have tried all those

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things and they don't work. And that's why they're doing something differently.

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And so this last piece is that, and I think this is the most important piece,

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by recognizing how our kids are all wired differently,

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there's actually different strategies that work better or worse for kids whose

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brains are wired in different ways.

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And so if we're not talking about that, then we're missing an opportunity to

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essentially help our kids, you know,

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overcome challenges that might be skills that are not natural to them and really

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accentuate their positive things so that they can be the best version of, you know, themselves.

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Yeah, so I'm in the unique situation of having, so I have three children.

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One is 16, the same as Joe's twins as well. But I also have twin girls that

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are 12 that are identical.

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So a lot of what you said is, is interesting to me, also from that part of having,

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children with, you know, born at the same, born at the same time,

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you know, there's very specific things that, especially having them second, right?

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It was, I remember, like, people use the term, like, oh, they're,

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they're a Just Dad Water kid.

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And, you know, and it's sort of the idea of, like, yeah, there are kids who

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come out, you know, like my child walked at eight months. And it's like,

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but you didn't, you didn't teach them to do that.

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They, they did that. Right. So, so I'm always very interested in,

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um, especially having the twins, um, you know, with that one had more struggles

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physically, the other with speech, things like that.

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Um, and of course it, and they would tell me, don't compare them. It's like.

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Well, isn't that impossible? And we had the same, we had the same issue.

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You know, it's the same gender.

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It's like, everything is the same. It's not fraternal twins,

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even where your two siblings just happen to be born at the same time.

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But you know, it's such, it's such an interesting, everything that you're saying

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is just, is so fascinating.

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Yeah. We witnessed the same thing with my own children. I mean,

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when my kids were young, my son was diagnosed like very slightly to need speech

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services, early intervention.

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So we had a speech person that came to the house and met with him and did stuff.

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But like my daughter was, was, was a yapper.

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Like she talked a lot. I think just, I just think she took up all the air in

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the room and he was just like, I don't want to hear it.

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Like I could see his personality forming at that young where he's just like,

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I want to sit and play with my toys and be quiet. and she's loud and boisterous

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and playing and making noise. And he wasn't.

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So maybe he wasn't developing. And we know that I'm generalizing,

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right? That boys develop slower than girls in that regard.

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Am I right or wrong in that assumption?

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I know you're going to say it depends on the case, right? I was going to say,

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it's sort of a running joke.

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When I talk to parents, I'll say, you know, brain development isn't done until

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about age 25 and maybe a little bit later in boys than girls.

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There are, there are, there are a hundred percent.

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There are some, like I have some of my friends that were in their twenties,

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good, the great people want to being great adults and great parents.

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But like in their early twenties, they're, you know, police officers are working on the parole board.

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They're like, Ooh, they were not the most, you know, not that they weren't stable,

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but they were like, they were a little bit of a loose cannon.

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And now they're carrying weapons around So not that they were going to do anything

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But you know what I mean People are still developing that Let's make the right

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decision Between right and wrong Sometimes a little bit later Where some kids don't,

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where some kids are much more mature for their age. Yes. And so much to dig into here.

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One of the running jokes you all were talking about, both having multiple kids.

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In our field, the joke is that everyone's an environmentalist until they have their second child.

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And then it's like, whoa, wait a second. I'm doing all the same things here.

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Why is this one turning out so differently? That's interesting. Yeah.

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Okay. Yes. They are. In fact, they have their own little temperaments and personalities.

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And really that comes from the fact that their brains are wired differently

00:17:47.565 --> 00:17:51.785
because they each have their little unique codes. And you can see that in a

00:17:51.785 --> 00:17:54.045
variety of ways from the very beginning.

00:17:55.145 --> 00:17:59.645
Jamie, you were talking about having identical twins. So the way that actually

00:17:59.645 --> 00:18:03.025
we know, and I talk about this in the beginning of the book,

00:18:03.105 --> 00:18:06.965
I kind of say, here's the science behind how we know that kids' behavior is

00:18:06.965 --> 00:18:08.045
genetically influenced.

00:18:08.045 --> 00:18:12.145
And if you don't care about that, you can skip and you're willing to take my word for it.

00:18:12.225 --> 00:18:14.825
You can you can skip that section and go right into, you know,

00:18:14.905 --> 00:18:18.305
the quizzes and things to figure out your own child and then what kind of parenting

00:18:18.305 --> 00:18:21.005
strategies, um, apply to them.

00:18:21.285 --> 00:18:25.745
But the way we figured out all of that was through twin studies.

00:18:26.005 --> 00:18:28.705
And so actually, um, some of my

00:18:28.705 --> 00:18:33.265
work, a lot of my work was with these big population-based twin studies.

00:18:33.825 --> 00:18:37.245
And, you know, if you go back 50 or so years ago.

00:18:38.084 --> 00:18:42.704
You know, we thought that almost all behavioral things and even severe disorders

00:18:42.704 --> 00:18:46.884
like autism or schizophrenia, that they were they were caused by bad parenting.

00:18:46.884 --> 00:18:49.664
You know, mostly mothers that got blamed for everything.

00:18:50.124 --> 00:18:55.844
And, you know, cold mothers caused autisms, cold mothers caused schizophrenia.

00:18:56.284 --> 00:19:01.164
And it was really twin studies where what we're able to do is twins come in

00:19:01.164 --> 00:19:06.444
two types. You know, it's you get identical twins or what we call monozygotic

00:19:06.444 --> 00:19:09.764
twins because it's single egg fertilized by a single sperm.

00:19:10.024 --> 00:19:13.684
And at some point during cell division, they split into two.

00:19:13.884 --> 00:19:15.944
And we still don't even know why that happens.

00:19:16.464 --> 00:19:22.784
And so you have two genetically identical individuals, obviously,

00:19:22.904 --> 00:19:25.724
on lots of outcomes. They're not identical people.

00:19:25.984 --> 00:19:29.784
They're a lot more similar than two random people you pick out of the population.

00:19:29.784 --> 00:19:33.324
But the other type of twins is

00:19:33.324 --> 00:19:36.664
fraternal twins or what we would call dizygotic two

00:19:36.664 --> 00:19:41.304
eggs fertilized by two sperm just like ordinary siblings except happens at the

00:19:41.304 --> 00:19:45.884
same time so they're in your utero together and so you can compare what you

00:19:45.884 --> 00:19:51.424
have are two types of siblings that are age matched and fraternal twins can

00:19:51.424 --> 00:19:55.984
be opposite sex or can be same sex so you can have sex matched age matched.

00:19:56.624 --> 00:20:00.164
They're both growing up, you know, when they're together in the same family

00:20:00.164 --> 00:20:02.664
with biological parents, they've got the same parents,

00:20:02.944 --> 00:20:08.064
same family, but what you have is one type of siblings that are sharing all

00:20:08.064 --> 00:20:13.084
their genetic material and the other type that are sharing just half of their genetic material.

00:20:13.204 --> 00:20:18.524
And what they found is that for virtually every behavior that has been studied,

00:20:19.444 --> 00:20:21.204
monozygotic or identical twins

00:20:21.204 --> 00:20:26.344
are far more similar to each other than dizygotic or fraternal twins.

00:20:26.684 --> 00:20:29.744
And that's how they realized, because if it was all parenting,

00:20:30.124 --> 00:20:34.384
right, if it was all our parenting that made them impulsive or anxious or,

00:20:34.464 --> 00:20:37.464
you know, whatever it is that we're interested in, extroverted, introverted,

00:20:37.964 --> 00:20:41.444
then you would expect this, you know, there wouldn't be any difference between

00:20:41.444 --> 00:20:45.164
the types of twins because they're both being raised by the same sets of parents.

00:20:45.944 --> 00:20:49.644
And that's not at all what we see. When you share more genes with somebody,

00:20:49.644 --> 00:20:51.044
you're a lot more similar.

00:20:51.904 --> 00:20:55.764
Now, not exactly alike. And that's how we know the environment still plays a big role.

00:20:55.864 --> 00:21:00.024
But it was actually twin studies that really were pivotal in teaching us that.

00:21:02.066 --> 00:21:04.866
Well, that's fascinating. Yeah. You still, we still get the classic,

00:21:04.866 --> 00:21:06.846
like, which one's the bad one? You know.

00:21:08.906 --> 00:21:11.806
Can you hear me? Yeah, I can. I'm sorry. Right.

00:21:11.866 --> 00:21:14.626
And it's always, right. It's like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't ever,

00:21:14.766 --> 00:21:17.846
I don't, I wouldn't take anyone else's children and say like,

00:21:17.986 --> 00:21:20.646
is what, but people love to do that with twins.

00:21:21.426 --> 00:21:27.166
I, my wife used to say, uh, buy one, get one free sale.

00:21:27.366 --> 00:21:30.806
It just depends on the free one is the one that's not having a good week.

00:21:30.806 --> 00:21:35.626
So, um, and ours are completely different personality wise.

00:21:35.806 --> 00:21:40.726
Um, I have an introvert and extrovert, um, not having taken one of the quizzes.

00:21:41.306 --> 00:21:46.566
Um, I have a go with the flow and a, I'm going to overthink every single solitary

00:21:46.566 --> 00:21:51.846
decision that I've, that I'm going to make and that she's my,

00:21:51.906 --> 00:21:53.086
my child's, that's my daughter.

00:21:53.266 --> 00:21:55.706
Um, cause she thinks a lot like I do.

00:21:56.086 --> 00:21:59.766
Um, so, but it's interesting to hear you say that.

00:21:59.766 --> 00:22:03.946
Because now thinking like when you were saying like, oh, if it wasn't partially

00:22:03.946 --> 00:22:07.686
the genetics, everything would be the same because you're literally raised in

00:22:07.686 --> 00:22:10.866
the same environment, same household, same parents, same messaging,

00:22:11.146 --> 00:22:14.246
same discipline, whatever it is.

00:22:14.386 --> 00:22:19.766
It's all the same for each child, but there has to be some kind of difference.

00:22:20.346 --> 00:22:24.486
And that comes from the genetics of each particular kid. So you mentioned about

00:22:24.486 --> 00:22:26.886
the quizzes in the book that you were talking about.

00:22:26.966 --> 00:22:30.506
I just want to explore that for a second. If a parent wants to.

00:22:31.873 --> 00:22:35.713
At what age would they start to try and figure this out? Yeah,

00:22:35.993 --> 00:22:41.013
so temperament starts to solidify usually around age three or so.

00:22:41.133 --> 00:22:46.273
And what we find is that actually measures of child behavior before that when

00:22:46.273 --> 00:22:50.493
they're really little tend to be more a reflection of parents' personality and stress.

00:22:51.693 --> 00:22:55.253
And not to say that things like how well kids sleep and that,

00:22:55.413 --> 00:22:58.313
you know, clearly those are genetically influenced as well, too.

00:22:58.313 --> 00:23:02.193
So my son- So is it true like tired people make tired children?

00:23:05.493 --> 00:23:07.433
I haven't heard that, but tiredness

00:23:07.433 --> 00:23:11.233
is probably about 50% genetic like everything else. So that would fit.

00:23:11.673 --> 00:23:15.213
Tired. Yeah, I kind of- People are looking at me like, well,

00:23:15.393 --> 00:23:17.873
you're a sleeper. Like to me, like you're a sleeper.

00:23:18.193 --> 00:23:22.833
That's why your kids are sleepers, right? And it's like, I guess. I guess. Yes.

00:23:23.353 --> 00:23:28.873
Well, when my son was little, he was, you know, a fabulous sleeper.

00:23:28.993 --> 00:23:32.893
He was a fabulous eater. And I was like, oh, well, of course, right?

00:23:33.033 --> 00:23:36.933
I have a PhD in, you know, developmental and clinical psychology.

00:23:36.933 --> 00:23:41.493
I've read all my books and I have this delightful, happy, easy baby.

00:23:42.393 --> 00:23:47.133
You know, what's so hard about parenting? And, you know, then all of a sudden,

00:23:47.253 --> 00:23:51.853
about 15 months old, his little personality started coming through.

00:23:51.913 --> 00:23:58.773
And I was like, oh, I just had an easy baby, right? I lucked into having an easy baby.

00:23:58.893 --> 00:24:04.273
But it is easy because, you know, kids' behavior is distributed on a bell curve.

00:24:04.393 --> 00:24:08.613
That means that there are some kids, you know, down at that extreme end who

00:24:08.613 --> 00:24:14.153
are highly agreeable and, you know, highly compliant and they're good sleepers

00:24:14.153 --> 00:24:15.113
and they're good eaters.

00:24:15.293 --> 00:24:19.313
And you ask them once to do something and they do it. And my stepdaughter is

00:24:19.313 --> 00:24:22.513
like that, right? I didn't know kids could be so agreeable.

00:24:22.773 --> 00:24:26.553
I knew that theoretically and technically, I studied children,

00:24:26.773 --> 00:24:28.573
maybe there must be kids at that end.

00:24:28.813 --> 00:24:33.293
I just didn't have one. My siblings didn't have any. My friends didn't have any at that end.

00:24:33.953 --> 00:24:39.373
But you can see how when you have a child who does have an easier temperament,

00:24:39.473 --> 00:24:42.993
you look at other parents and children, you think like, whoa,

00:24:43.353 --> 00:24:45.473
look at that child throwing a massive fit.

00:24:46.293 --> 00:24:53.073
What must that parent be doing wrong? And that's why it can kind of create some of this judgment.

00:24:53.313 --> 00:24:57.413
But all behavior is really distributed like a bell curve.

00:24:57.593 --> 00:25:05.693
And so you really start to see some of these differences solidify around two to three.

00:25:06.053 --> 00:25:13.813
And by solidify, what I mean is you can see behavior patterns that but become consistent,

00:25:14.481 --> 00:25:17.921
across time, you know, across place,

00:25:18.261 --> 00:25:22.821
meaning they're acting the same way at school as they are, you know,

00:25:22.981 --> 00:25:28.321
at home, that multiple people would agree, for example, this is a more introverted

00:25:28.321 --> 00:25:31.101
child, right? Or this is a more impulsive child.

00:25:31.321 --> 00:25:34.981
And so it starts to be kind of, you see consistency across people,

00:25:35.401 --> 00:25:37.661
across place, and across time.

00:25:37.801 --> 00:25:42.281
It's not like, you know, I mean, all kids might get scared if a big dog starts

00:25:42.281 --> 00:25:45.481
leaping at them and, you know, like snarling and showing his teeth.

00:25:45.541 --> 00:25:50.281
But if you have a child who's scared when it's like the sweet little puppy just

00:25:50.281 --> 00:25:55.701
walking down the street and the meeting a new person and the going to a new

00:25:55.701 --> 00:25:57.761
place, and then you start to realize,

00:25:58.221 --> 00:26:01.341
okay, this might be a child with a more anxious temperament.

00:26:01.941 --> 00:26:06.881
So that's when we can kind of start to see these things emerge.

00:26:07.741 --> 00:26:13.001
And then, you know, the key piece and why I think it's so important is that,

00:26:13.121 --> 00:26:18.721
you know, as parents, we can essentially adapt our parenting.

00:26:19.261 --> 00:26:24.321
Once we kind of better understand how our kids are wired, kids don't all respond

00:26:24.321 --> 00:26:28.261
in the same way to, you know, the quote, same type of parenting.

00:26:28.481 --> 00:26:34.081
And so there are some things that work better or worse for kids with different temperamental styles.

00:26:34.381 --> 00:26:36.801
And that's a lot of what I go into in my book.

00:26:37.901 --> 00:26:41.481
So something you said, not to shift gears, but something you said actually struck

00:26:41.481 --> 00:26:43.881
me for a second, because there are times when,

00:26:44.361 --> 00:26:48.101
you know, from a teaching perspective where Jamie and I will be in a parent

00:26:48.101 --> 00:26:51.241
meeting or we'll be having a discussion about a child and the parents say,

00:26:51.321 --> 00:26:54.761
oh, that's so, you know, they've never exhibited that behavior at home.

00:26:54.921 --> 00:26:56.501
So like, what do you attribute?

00:26:57.641 --> 00:27:01.321
I don't know if there is an answer to this question. What do you attribute a

00:27:01.321 --> 00:27:07.241
child who maybe exhibit certain impulsive negative behaviors in a classroom,

00:27:07.241 --> 00:27:09.341
but doesn't do them at home.

00:27:09.901 --> 00:27:12.801
Now is a parent just have, maybe they have, maybe there's a little bit of having

00:27:12.801 --> 00:27:17.081
blinders on or they're, they're used to that stimulus where they don't see the

00:27:17.081 --> 00:27:20.561
forest through the trees, but like, is there a definable answer?

00:27:22.481 --> 00:27:28.301
So, you know, I, uh, I think many of us have had the, the other experience too,

00:27:28.501 --> 00:27:30.821
where, you know, they're like, oh, he's so well behaved in school.

00:27:30.901 --> 00:27:32.821
And you're like, my child? Really?

00:27:34.881 --> 00:27:38.461
I'm glad you just said that because that's the opposite side of the coin too, right? Yes.

00:27:38.881 --> 00:27:44.801
And so, you know, by saying behavior is stable across setting,

00:27:45.001 --> 00:27:49.581
of course, there can be some variation across settings, right? And so.

00:27:50.562 --> 00:27:54.842
The boundaries and the rules at school are different and can be different than

00:27:54.842 --> 00:27:56.662
the boundaries and rules at home.

00:27:56.842 --> 00:28:01.062
And so, you know, as just one example, you know, one of the things we know with

00:28:01.062 --> 00:28:05.622
kids who are very impulsive and who then, you know, might subsequently be diagnosed

00:28:05.622 --> 00:28:10.342
with ADHD is they have a lot of trouble sitting still and, you know, sitting,

00:28:10.602 --> 00:28:14.402
you know, in their chair and staying on task and those kinds of things.

00:28:14.922 --> 00:28:21.462
So, you know, now if at home they live out on a farm and they run around outside

00:28:21.462 --> 00:28:26.802
and, you know, the parent might not be seeing and having as many problems with

00:28:26.802 --> 00:28:29.602
that as it's causing in the school setting.

00:28:29.822 --> 00:28:34.742
And conversely, you know, there are certain classroom settings that are more

00:28:34.742 --> 00:28:39.742
challenging for kids, you know, and I know this from having had a son with ADHD,

00:28:40.042 --> 00:28:42.982
you know, teachers all run their classrooms differently.

00:28:43.282 --> 00:28:48.162
It's not just kids that have their own temperaments. We have our own temperaments and characteristics.

00:28:48.602 --> 00:28:51.802
And so we can even maybe get into that kind of how those interact,

00:28:52.002 --> 00:28:53.282
adults and children too.

00:28:53.562 --> 00:28:58.882
It's true with a parent and a child and what they, how they perceive the child's behavior.

00:28:59.582 --> 00:29:04.862
It's true with teachers and with kids too, in terms of both how a teacher might

00:29:04.862 --> 00:29:06.622
perceive the child's behavior.

00:29:06.942 --> 00:29:10.122
You know, you might have a teacher that grew up with a whole bunch of,

00:29:10.282 --> 00:29:13.902
you know, boy siblings and, you know, they're kind of, they're like,

00:29:14.002 --> 00:29:15.842
oh, another rambunctious boy.

00:29:16.042 --> 00:29:18.582
Okay, great. All right. I see you're getting a little riled up,

00:29:18.682 --> 00:29:23.102
you know, go do a few laps around the mat in the back of the classroom and then come on back.

00:29:23.802 --> 00:29:28.702
Whereas another teacher might feel like, wow, this child really has got to sit

00:29:28.702 --> 00:29:31.342
in their seat, right? Like I can't teach. This is driving me crazy.

00:29:31.742 --> 00:29:34.582
And now the child's getting a lot of negative feedback and, you know,

00:29:34.702 --> 00:29:39.302
and so you could have the same behavior with, with a teacher that maybe structures

00:29:39.302 --> 00:29:43.582
the classroom differently, or maybe that perceives the behavior differently,

00:29:43.842 --> 00:29:45.482
that can lead to sometimes,

00:29:45.762 --> 00:29:48.162
it's what we call goodness of fit, you know?

00:29:48.242 --> 00:29:53.182
And so there's a variety of things that can contribute to goodness of fit for

00:29:53.182 --> 00:29:57.182
a particular child in any given setting.

00:29:57.242 --> 00:30:02.182
And when the setting is different, it, you know, it can create differences in

00:30:02.182 --> 00:30:08.302
goodness of fit, which can also create differences in terms of how the child's behavior is perceived.

00:30:11.442 --> 00:30:17.162
Wow. No, that's a very interesting perspective.

00:30:17.562 --> 00:30:21.102
And it also was something that you said there, like from the teaching perspective

00:30:21.102 --> 00:30:26.182
of like that teacher who grew up with three,

00:30:26.322 --> 00:30:31.742
four boys in their house dealing with that rambunctious behavior might be more

00:30:31.742 --> 00:30:34.502
apt to handle that in a classroom where...

00:30:35.934 --> 00:30:40.554
Others might not. I think that's that's a whole, you know, product of your environment

00:30:40.554 --> 00:30:44.694
type of thing, like the teaching style that we develop sometimes comes and gets

00:30:44.694 --> 00:30:47.254
affected by our environment.

00:30:47.454 --> 00:30:50.514
Right. It gets affected by how we grew up, where we grew up,

00:30:50.634 --> 00:30:53.914
the experiences that we had, the stimulus that we that we dealt with,

00:30:53.954 --> 00:30:57.654
which could also make it easier or more challenging for us to deal with students

00:30:57.654 --> 00:30:58.514
who have problem behavior.

00:30:58.514 --> 00:31:04.934
And the other reality is that we as adults, you know, when you're a child,

00:31:05.114 --> 00:31:07.834
you're placed into environments a lot.

00:31:07.974 --> 00:31:10.694
Right. And that's largely dictated by adults.

00:31:10.974 --> 00:31:17.454
As you get older, we have more opportunity to either select ourselves into environments

00:31:17.454 --> 00:31:24.814
as their adolescents or adults to create environments for our children and for ourselves.

00:31:25.414 --> 00:31:29.034
And so, you know, like we were talking about, it's not just our kids who have

00:31:29.034 --> 00:31:31.914
their own unique little brains and wiring.

00:31:32.214 --> 00:31:37.034
Of course, we all do as well, too. And so all of our interactions.

00:31:37.714 --> 00:31:41.174
You know, whether it's between a parent and a child or a teacher and a child,

00:31:41.394 --> 00:31:45.694
are a product of, you know, both how those people's, you know,

00:31:45.774 --> 00:31:50.474
their natural dispositions, how their brains are wired, along with the environments

00:31:50.474 --> 00:31:53.274
that they grew up in and what they're comfortable with and whatnot.

00:31:53.274 --> 00:31:59.634
But if you take just kind of a silly, easy example, you can imagine if you have

00:31:59.634 --> 00:32:03.594
a more extroverted parent with an extroverted child,

00:32:03.954 --> 00:32:07.774
then extroverted parent is taking them to, you know, sporting events and the

00:32:07.774 --> 00:32:12.554
carnival and, you know, festivals and kids having lots of fun and parents having

00:32:12.554 --> 00:32:15.194
lots of fun. And, you know, they're really enjoying each other.

00:32:15.334 --> 00:32:19.394
And sometimes those matches can make parenting feel, quote unquote, easy.

00:32:20.734 --> 00:32:26.754
On the other hand, if you have that exact same parent, you know,

00:32:26.934 --> 00:32:29.134
with a child that's more introverted,

00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:34.199
parent is taking them to festival and child's, you know, like hiding behind

00:32:34.199 --> 00:32:36.879
the tree and doesn't want to hang out with the other kids.

00:32:36.999 --> 00:32:39.899
And it's too many people. It's too much stimulation. And then they're going,

00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:43.339
come on, it's fine. It's not a big deal. Oh my gosh.

00:32:43.459 --> 00:32:46.199
Why is this such a big deal? This is supposed to be a fun day.

00:32:46.199 --> 00:32:48.419
Like, why are you crying? You know?

00:32:49.699 --> 00:32:53.339
Conversely, you take that extroverted child and put them with,

00:32:53.479 --> 00:32:58.299
you know, or you take them maybe to, but the more introverted parent,

00:32:58.579 --> 00:33:02.819
now maybe parent is taking them to like the library reading hour.

00:33:03.099 --> 00:33:07.239
And, you know, the child is running around pulling books off the shelves,

00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:09.899
you know, the parents are giving you dirty looks.

00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:15.699
And that's nobody's having any fun, right? You're constantly having to correct the child and whatnot.

00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:21.999
So you take that exact same setting, maybe you have another child who's more introverted, right?

00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.839
Who has better self-regulation skills naturally.

00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:27.999
Everybody's sitting there listening to the book, being read,

00:33:28.179 --> 00:33:29.759
having a wonderful time together.

00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:36.439
And so you can see that like, you know, in both cases, parents are well-meaning,

00:33:36.699 --> 00:33:44.559
but we often create environments and do things with our kids based on what we think would be fun.

00:33:44.919 --> 00:33:50.459
And that's a product of, you know, the way our brains work and our kids' brains

00:33:50.459 --> 00:33:53.079
are not necessarily going to be the same.

00:33:53.219 --> 00:33:56.459
And this is something I definitely ran into with my son because,

00:33:56.459 --> 00:33:58.659
you know, I'm kind of the consummate extrovert.

00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:02.459
And on Saturday mornings, I would be like, you know, guess what?

00:34:02.699 --> 00:34:05.339
We're going to go to the park and we're going to meet up with so-and-so and

00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:08.519
so-and-so. And remember, all these little kids and this.

00:34:08.899 --> 00:34:13.139
And next thing you know, he'd go from happily eating his cereal to like sweeping

00:34:13.139 --> 00:34:17.359
it off the table or, you know, throwing a shoe and taking him off me like, I'm not going.

00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:22.859
And, you know, then as a parent, you naturally tend to respond to that behavior, right? Like,

00:34:23.412 --> 00:34:26.732
what are you doing, young man? We don't throw our cereal on the floor.

00:34:26.752 --> 00:34:29.832
You don't throw your shoes. That's not okay.

00:34:30.192 --> 00:34:35.692
And then they get more wound up and you don't have to be a PhD to figure this is going nowhere good.

00:34:35.852 --> 00:34:39.092
And it's definitely not heading toward a fun day at the park together.

00:34:40.012 --> 00:34:45.752
And what I realized is, oh, my son, to this day, he's 18 now,

00:34:45.932 --> 00:34:48.032
is far more introverted.

00:34:48.032 --> 00:34:54.372
And his little, you know, three, four, five-year-old brain did not have the

00:34:54.372 --> 00:34:57.572
wherewithal to when I said, we're going to go to the park, we're going to meet

00:34:57.572 --> 00:34:59.412
up with all these kids and to say,

00:34:59.892 --> 00:35:04.812
oh, wow, mother, that sounds really overwhelming and a little frightening to me.

00:35:05.032 --> 00:35:09.072
You think maybe we could have a play date with one friend instead,

00:35:09.072 --> 00:35:13.692
you know, instead he just throws a shoe or sweeps a cereal because it's just

00:35:13.692 --> 00:35:15.632
too much for him to manage.

00:35:16.192 --> 00:35:19.232
And, you know, once I realized what was going on, I was like,

00:35:19.472 --> 00:35:22.152
Oh, okay, let's recalibrate.

00:35:22.352 --> 00:35:26.472
And you know what, now I understand where this is coming from.

00:35:26.852 --> 00:35:31.112
And so instead of, I was doing the equivalent of throwing a child who couldn't

00:35:31.112 --> 00:35:32.832
swim into the deep end of a pool.

00:35:33.532 --> 00:35:38.272
Instead, it's like, okay, it doesn't naturally come, you know,

00:35:38.672 --> 00:35:42.552
easy to him to be thrown in with a bunch of people he doesn't know.

00:35:42.792 --> 00:35:46.572
So we're going to start with playdates with a single friend, right?

00:35:46.772 --> 00:35:49.672
Somewhere he's comfortable. He becomes more comfortable with that.

00:35:49.792 --> 00:35:52.812
Okay. Now we're going to invite another friend over to the same place.

00:35:52.812 --> 00:35:53.772
He's already comfortable.

00:35:53.972 --> 00:36:01.772
Now we introduced that. So you're teaching the child skills so that I will say, you know, even at 18,

00:36:02.072 --> 00:36:05.612
it's still not his favorite thing to be thrown into a large group of people

00:36:05.612 --> 00:36:08.872
or, you know, the family reunion with all the cousins that he's seen,

00:36:08.972 --> 00:36:12.312
you know, every five, 10 years is never going to be his favorite thing to do,

00:36:12.372 --> 00:36:14.712
but he can make small talk.

00:36:14.852 --> 00:36:18.672
He can be socially graced. He can handle it even though it's still not his favorite.

00:36:18.952 --> 00:36:23.912
And so, you know, I go into that because it's an example of how by understanding

00:36:23.912 --> 00:36:27.952
how your child is wired and then thinking about kind of how you're wired,

00:36:28.427 --> 00:36:32.767
You can think about places where it might be leading to tension.

00:36:33.327 --> 00:36:38.967
And you can also then think about like, how do I teach my child skills?

00:36:40.367 --> 00:36:45.967
How do we reduce some of this family friction by being proactive and planning ahead?

00:36:46.027 --> 00:36:50.587
But then also, how do I teach my child the skills that might be lagging and

00:36:50.587 --> 00:36:51.827
not come to them naturally?

00:36:53.707 --> 00:37:01.027
I want to get into the surveys in a minute, but the idea always that I have

00:37:01.027 --> 00:37:02.467
between my husband and I,

00:37:02.627 --> 00:37:06.987
and so maybe this is something we've made up, or maybe you can talk about it a little bit,

00:37:07.127 --> 00:37:13.987
is the difficulties that we have in parenting the children in our home that are most similar to us,

00:37:14.127 --> 00:37:20.067
rather than the ones that are different than we are, because they seem to kind

00:37:20.067 --> 00:37:25.007
of know just what to say or how to get, you know what I mean?

00:37:25.267 --> 00:37:31.627
Um, and so we each have of our three children, we each have one that can do that to both of us.

00:37:31.687 --> 00:37:34.027
And we've sort of observed it and we've talked about kind of,

00:37:34.187 --> 00:37:37.027
you know, why that is or what, you know, and it's like, my gosh,

00:37:37.147 --> 00:37:40.387
they're, they're that you do that most by my husband, like you do that all the time.

00:37:40.527 --> 00:37:46.867
And you can't give him like the grace that you demand for yourself to the,

00:37:47.007 --> 00:37:50.647
and he, I don't know, you know, and the same thing with me.

00:37:50.807 --> 00:37:54.467
So I'm just curious if you have anything, you know, about that.

00:37:55.267 --> 00:37:58.427
Absolutely. So please, please, please fix our lives.

00:38:00.147 --> 00:38:05.947
We're only at that easy, right? So I give the example where when you're matched, it can be easier.

00:38:06.247 --> 00:38:10.547
Of course, there's many things where when you're matched, it can make it more challenging.

00:38:10.907 --> 00:38:17.467
And I had some of those with my son, too, where, you know, he is a more one

00:38:17.467 --> 00:38:19.747
of the things when we get into the surveys and talk about it is,

00:38:19.987 --> 00:38:22.127
you know, some kids are more emotional, right?

00:38:22.267 --> 00:38:24.587
They're more quick to big feelings.

00:38:24.907 --> 00:38:28.587
And, you know, these things are genetically influenced.

00:38:29.007 --> 00:38:35.207
I have things mostly under control as an adult here, but, and so sometimes it

00:38:35.207 --> 00:38:38.247
would be like when he'd be coloring and one minute he's happy and the next minute

00:38:38.247 --> 00:38:41.567
he's crumpled up his paper and thrown it down. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah.

00:38:41.687 --> 00:38:44.887
It must've been not quite the right color of blue for the sky,

00:38:45.127 --> 00:38:46.707
right? I got it. I recognize that.

00:38:46.847 --> 00:38:50.987
But in other cases, we can totally push each other's buttons, right?

00:38:51.147 --> 00:38:55.767
Because he gets worked up, I get worked up, you get each other more worked up.

00:38:55.947 --> 00:38:58.727
And so that can absolutely happen too.

00:38:59.407 --> 00:39:01.747
But, you know, Jamie, to your point, I think,

00:39:02.302 --> 00:39:08.182
recognizing those things. And, and, you know, one of the, the reasons that when

00:39:08.182 --> 00:39:11.022
I talked to their parents, they've said, you know, the book is helpful is because

00:39:11.022 --> 00:39:17.182
it's sort of like being mindful of those places where, you know.

00:39:17.922 --> 00:39:23.762
Tension is coming because our children are either very similar or very dissimilar to us.

00:39:23.962 --> 00:39:27.882
And, you know, we, we are all wired in different ways and, And,

00:39:27.882 --> 00:39:34.242
you know, yet here we are all trying to coexist in a home together and true spouses too.

00:39:34.362 --> 00:39:38.362
There's a whole chapter in my book about partners and predispositions, right?

00:39:38.522 --> 00:39:43.402
And why you see things differently than your partner and you can't agree on

00:39:43.402 --> 00:39:46.382
things with your kids and, you know, those sorts of things as well, too.

00:39:46.782 --> 00:39:49.242
What does your husband sometimes say to you? It's like, well,

00:39:49.322 --> 00:39:50.322
you're just nicer than I am.

00:39:50.482 --> 00:39:56.462
Let's say something like that. I have to say, Jason, my husband and I started

00:39:56.462 --> 00:40:02.102
this sort of mantra when the kids were really small, where we would say, same team, same team.

00:40:02.562 --> 00:40:07.222
And we would clap it, even if we didn't necessarily 100% agree,

00:40:07.222 --> 00:40:10.282
we had to keep the united, because they outnumber us.

00:40:10.362 --> 00:40:14.162
Once they outnumber you, you have to get down that same team.

00:40:14.362 --> 00:40:20.762
I'm at even, use a sports analogy, I'm at even strength, and Jamie is on a penalty kill.

00:40:21.182 --> 00:40:24.702
She's a man down. You know, so we did, we kind of had that whole,

00:40:24.842 --> 00:40:28.882
but, and I feel like even if it wasn't working, it was working because we had

00:40:28.882 --> 00:40:32.442
the support with each other, but I can't wait to read your book and the,

00:40:32.522 --> 00:40:34.602
and especially the chapter on the spouses.

00:40:34.762 --> 00:40:39.382
Cause as the kids are getting older, the dynamic changes and they become,

00:40:39.562 --> 00:40:44.342
they become more vocal and more observant and they are wise to what they can

00:40:44.342 --> 00:40:47.002
say to try to split the team, you know? Absolutely.

00:40:47.282 --> 00:40:53.682
And the other piece is that But to the extent, you know, there are times as

00:40:53.682 --> 00:40:57.422
your child grows and develops, the relationship with each parent,

00:40:57.582 --> 00:40:58.902
of course, will change too.

00:40:59.142 --> 00:41:04.162
And so there's times where I think certain characteristics of kids can be much

00:41:04.162 --> 00:41:06.362
harder for one parent than another.

00:41:06.562 --> 00:41:10.502
And that can also shift across development. And so, for example.

00:41:11.142 --> 00:41:15.482
You know, when my son was little and highly impulsive, that was hard for me

00:41:15.482 --> 00:41:19.342
because like the idea of him, you know, the bull in the China shop and things

00:41:19.342 --> 00:41:22.202
were getting broken and, you know, all that kind of stuff around the house,

00:41:22.342 --> 00:41:24.642
like that drove me a little bit crazy.

00:41:24.902 --> 00:41:29.302
Now, impulsivity in a teenager, I do a lot of work with adolescents.

00:41:29.302 --> 00:41:32.742
I'm like, I get you. I get what's going on in your brain.

00:41:33.122 --> 00:41:38.122
Whereas like, you know, for his dad, that was much more of a like,

00:41:38.662 --> 00:41:43.742
ah, you know, like teenagers were much more stressful to him.

00:41:43.882 --> 00:41:49.842
And so, you know, it's kind of a, that same characteristic as it unfolds in

00:41:49.842 --> 00:41:55.242
different ways can also be more or less stressful for each parent too.

00:41:55.882 --> 00:41:59.802
And, and one of the other things is that because, you know,

00:42:00.061 --> 00:42:04.261
You know, we each have our own both family histories, you know,

00:42:04.401 --> 00:42:07.341
meaning you and your partner each grew up in a different family,

00:42:07.501 --> 00:42:09.101
which probably had different rules and all that.

00:42:09.361 --> 00:42:13.501
But then the fact that you also have brains that are wired differently means

00:42:13.501 --> 00:42:17.761
that, you know, one of the things we commonly see is, in fact,

00:42:17.961 --> 00:42:21.901
one of my colleagues who also studies genetics and child behavior,

00:42:22.061 --> 00:42:24.961
she said once she had her nanny,

00:42:25.221 --> 00:42:30.361
her husband, and her all fill out questionnaires about her daughter when she was little.

00:42:30.541 --> 00:42:33.781
And she said, I discovered we're all raising a different child.

00:42:34.161 --> 00:42:39.561
And by that, she meant the way they were perceiving her behavior was different.

00:42:40.281 --> 00:42:43.321
And because they're seeing it through their own, you know, environmental,

00:42:43.881 --> 00:42:45.801
but also just behavioral lens.

00:42:45.941 --> 00:42:50.961
And what seemed really impulsive and challenging for one parent was like,

00:42:51.161 --> 00:42:54.121
eh, not so much of a big deal to another parent.

00:42:54.461 --> 00:43:02.901
And so I think that recognizing that that's going to happen and that's actually okay.

00:43:03.241 --> 00:43:08.761
So often we, with our partners, myself included, it can turn into a tension

00:43:08.761 --> 00:43:11.501
point where you're like, no, no, no, I'm right. No, no, I'm right.

00:43:11.761 --> 00:43:17.261
Well, the reality is everybody's right because you are in fact seeing things

00:43:17.261 --> 00:43:22.281
through your own lens and some people view it as more challenging or less challenging,

00:43:22.281 --> 00:43:24.341
as more impulsive or not impulsive.

00:43:24.561 --> 00:43:30.341
And so, you know, one of the things that parents will often ask me is like, is this normal?

00:43:30.661 --> 00:43:34.501
You know, is this normal or is it an impulsive child or is it ADHD?

00:43:34.921 --> 00:43:38.121
Is this, you know, just an anxious child or is this anxiety?

00:43:38.441 --> 00:43:43.601
And that's a place where I find parents sometimes like will butt heads too about

00:43:43.601 --> 00:43:46.841
how problematic it is? Is it normal or is it not?

00:43:47.621 --> 00:43:53.321
And so one of the things that I suggest is that's not the best question to be

00:43:53.321 --> 00:43:56.221
asking because behavior is on a bell curve.

00:43:56.361 --> 00:43:59.961
That means it's normal that some kids are going to be really high on impulsivity

00:43:59.961 --> 00:44:03.661
and really high on anxiety and all the other things.

00:44:04.341 --> 00:44:08.641
What's a better question to ask is, is it causing harm?

00:44:08.781 --> 00:44:13.461
Is it causing challenges at home with their peers,

00:44:14.213 --> 00:44:19.233
And at school. And if the answer to, you know, one of those or more than those,

00:44:19.453 --> 00:44:22.433
you know, especially if it's the trifecta is yes,

00:44:22.933 --> 00:44:26.933
then a more productive conversation is like, OK, so how are we going to put

00:44:26.933 --> 00:44:31.213
in some place, some strategies to support this child?

00:44:31.213 --> 00:44:36.173
Um, and, uh, and I find that the people who are actually most,

00:44:36.413 --> 00:44:42.273
you know, the quickest to seek out help are other psychologists and psychiatrists,

00:44:42.413 --> 00:44:45.593
because we get like, this is hard. It's hard to raise kids.

00:44:45.773 --> 00:44:49.253
You want lots of folks on your team and you want lots of people,

00:44:49.513 --> 00:44:52.193
you know, kind of looking at this from, from multiple angles.

00:44:52.653 --> 00:44:59.593
Yeah. And so, so we would, um, take the surveys and then what's the next step?

00:44:59.933 --> 00:45:04.113
Yeah. So in the book, I talk about the three E's.

00:45:04.313 --> 00:45:11.913
And so what these are is three temperamental dimensions that show up in studies

00:45:11.913 --> 00:45:15.353
done in countries all around the world consistently.

00:45:16.213 --> 00:45:21.693
And so the first one is they're all genetically influenced and kids,

00:45:21.693 --> 00:45:24.393
you know, can fall all along kind of the bell curve there.

00:45:24.993 --> 00:45:27.053
The first one is extroversion.

00:45:27.773 --> 00:45:33.293
So some people are more naturally drawn to and get energy from being around lots of other people.

00:45:33.533 --> 00:45:37.893
Some people prefer more quiet time. They find it more stressful to be around

00:45:37.893 --> 00:45:38.973
lots of people, et cetera.

00:45:39.375 --> 00:45:44.395
We talk about this a lot in adults. We don't talk about it as much in children,

00:45:44.575 --> 00:45:45.995
especially young children.

00:45:46.295 --> 00:45:51.355
And I think that's a mistake because it's influencing their behavior and how

00:45:51.355 --> 00:45:54.075
well they're doing in situations a lot too.

00:45:54.335 --> 00:45:57.715
So one is extroversion. The second one is emotionality.

00:45:58.055 --> 00:46:03.295
So we talked a little bit earlier about some kids are just much quicker to fear,

00:46:03.715 --> 00:46:05.375
frustration, distress.

00:46:06.375 --> 00:46:11.395
And the reason that, you know, that becomes really important is because sometimes

00:46:11.395 --> 00:46:16.215
our natural tendencies as parents are actually not the strategies that are going

00:46:16.215 --> 00:46:18.235
to work best with those kids.

00:46:18.815 --> 00:46:24.175
And then the third one is effortful control, or what we sometimes colloquially

00:46:24.175 --> 00:46:26.615
call self-control or impulsivity.

00:46:27.635 --> 00:46:33.095
And that's related to the fact that, you know, some kids are more naturally

00:46:33.095 --> 00:46:38.375
impulsive than others. Others are, you know, better able to regulate and control

00:46:38.375 --> 00:46:40.795
their behavior from a younger age.

00:46:40.935 --> 00:46:45.235
All kids get better about this, you know, over time and as their brains develop,

00:46:45.475 --> 00:46:48.895
but they differ in kind of their natural set points, if you will,

00:46:49.035 --> 00:46:50.515
on these three dimensions.

00:46:50.775 --> 00:46:54.915
And so there are three dimensions that show up all around the world,

00:46:54.915 --> 00:47:00.855
but they're also related to a lot of outcomes in terms of child behavior and

00:47:00.855 --> 00:47:02.855
how well they're doing and how

00:47:02.855 --> 00:47:08.635
much sources of tension or frustration or challenges there are at home,

00:47:08.815 --> 00:47:11.095
at school, with friends, et cetera.

00:47:11.475 --> 00:47:17.615
And so what there are is there's surveys to measure where your child falls on

00:47:17.615 --> 00:47:21.715
each of these dimensions or each of your children fall on these dimensions.

00:47:22.575 --> 00:47:29.415
And then, and there's actually surveys for where you fall on these dimensions as well too.

00:47:29.415 --> 00:47:33.935
And they're questions that are based on the kinds of research questions that

00:47:33.935 --> 00:47:39.975
we use in these studies we started talking about at the very beginning of the podcast with, you know,

00:47:40.275 --> 00:47:44.615
that have been administered to literally tens of thousands of kids from around the world.

00:47:44.855 --> 00:47:49.015
And so after you kind of get a sense of where your child falls,

00:47:49.195 --> 00:47:52.295
where you fall, then there's chapters that go through.

00:47:52.968 --> 00:47:59.868
What do we know about what kind of parenting strategies work best for kids who

00:47:59.868 --> 00:48:02.508
vary on each of these dimensions?

00:48:02.948 --> 00:48:08.648
And so, for example, you know, kids who are more extroverted or more introverted,

00:48:08.648 --> 00:48:12.228
they actually need different things from their parents.

00:48:12.488 --> 00:48:17.328
Different things are more challenging for them. And when we're more mindful

00:48:17.328 --> 00:48:21.408
about that as parents, we can better support them, nurture them.

00:48:22.128 --> 00:48:27.188
Help them feel comfortable in their own skin instead of kind of less of.

00:48:27.608 --> 00:48:31.888
And that can sometimes inadvertently happen when, as one example,

00:48:32.108 --> 00:48:36.048
you have a more extroverted parent who's got a more introverted child and you're

00:48:36.048 --> 00:48:38.328
going like, why don't you have more friends?

00:48:38.668 --> 00:48:43.248
When I was your age, I was out at parties and I was out hanging out with lots of people.

00:48:43.668 --> 00:48:47.068
Why are you just hanging out with the girl next door all the time?

00:48:47.068 --> 00:48:48.968
More. Don't you want to join a sorority?

00:48:49.168 --> 00:48:52.528
Or like, why aren't you involved in more clubs? Or you need to come out of your

00:48:52.528 --> 00:48:56.468
room more, you know, read less, you spend more time with other people,

00:48:56.708 --> 00:49:00.708
you know, and, and then inadvertently, we might send the message to our kid,

00:49:00.848 --> 00:49:04.028
like, you know, ah, I'm not enough, right?

00:49:04.188 --> 00:49:07.908
What's, what's wrong with me? My parent thinks I should be more whatever.

00:49:08.468 --> 00:49:12.628
And so, so by understanding kind of your child, how they're wired,

00:49:12.628 --> 00:49:14.668
That was just one example,

00:49:14.888 --> 00:49:20.428
but you can help think about embracing their strengths and then helping them

00:49:20.428 --> 00:49:23.748
learn things that might not come naturally or be more challenging.

00:49:24.268 --> 00:49:29.868
Similarly, for effortful control, very often those big feelings,

00:49:29.868 --> 00:49:34.528
they can result in, as we were talking about, the cereal bowl off the table,

00:49:34.708 --> 00:49:39.148
the thrown shoes, what we might consider, quote, bad behavior in kids.

00:49:39.148 --> 00:49:42.728
And our natural tendency might be to clamp down and say, you know,

00:49:43.008 --> 00:49:47.508
you need to stop this and, and, you know, and to implement, you know,

00:49:47.688 --> 00:49:48.728
punishments and whatnot.

00:49:49.962 --> 00:49:55.622
Unfortunately, those kids, those big feelings that kind of come over them,

00:49:55.822 --> 00:49:59.942
they often just don't have the skills to manage them.

00:50:00.082 --> 00:50:04.762
And so it would be the same thing as like punishing a child who doesn't know

00:50:04.762 --> 00:50:10.262
algebra to do better on their algebra test, right? Like they don't need to be punished.

00:50:10.562 --> 00:50:12.942
They probably want to do better on algebra too.

00:50:13.282 --> 00:50:16.942
They actually need skills. They need to learn algebra. So these kids,

00:50:17.082 --> 00:50:18.582
you know, they need different things.

00:50:19.242 --> 00:50:22.802
Does anybody really need to learn algebra? I mean, can we just, can we?

00:50:25.262 --> 00:50:31.502
I'm sorry. I heard you say, I often say to my own children, like I'm on my 3,493rd

00:50:31.502 --> 00:50:33.762
day not having used algebra and I'm doing just fine.

00:50:34.202 --> 00:50:36.482
Anyway, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just, I had to.

00:50:37.222 --> 00:50:41.422
No, I totally appreciate it. You know, you talk about the places where you and

00:50:41.422 --> 00:50:45.202
your child are the same or different. And, you know, my one of my fondest memories

00:50:45.202 --> 00:50:49.202
of my son was, you know, here I was the straight A student who,

00:50:49.342 --> 00:50:51.022
you know, spent forever in school.

00:50:51.282 --> 00:50:54.442
Right. I literally just kept going and going until I ran out of degrees.

00:50:54.882 --> 00:51:00.482
And and my son was the like, school's not really my thing.

00:51:01.722 --> 00:51:05.262
And we were sitting at the table once and I'd been getting all this information

00:51:05.262 --> 00:51:09.262
from the teacher about a geology test coming up and study the rocks.

00:51:09.262 --> 00:51:14.842
And I said, you know, we've really got to study for this, this test. And he goes, why?

00:51:15.142 --> 00:51:18.942
And I was like, it's, it's important. And you've got to learn all these rocks.

00:51:19.122 --> 00:51:24.202
And he goes, mom, how much are you using your rock knowledge?

00:51:25.902 --> 00:51:31.082
And he was eight, eight years old. I love everything about that.

00:51:31.562 --> 00:51:34.522
I've also seen memes where it's like, name a book that made you cry.

00:51:34.522 --> 00:51:40.962
It's like Algebra 2 by Holt McMillan or whatever the publishers are.

00:51:41.982 --> 00:51:48.342
No, I mean, I encourage our listeners to take a look at The Child Code by Daniel Dick, Dr.

00:51:48.502 --> 00:51:52.042
Daniel Dick, which can be found anywhere books are sold.

00:51:52.402 --> 00:51:57.522
And as you've seen, if you're watching on YouTube or on the Spotify streaming,

00:51:57.722 --> 00:52:02.002
which apparently we're on now, Danielle, we're just on so many new platforms.

00:52:02.202 --> 00:52:05.482
We're like, our heads are spinning. We're very excited. But no.

00:52:06.682 --> 00:52:12.942
Danielle's website, www.danielledick.com will give you parenting tips as well

00:52:12.942 --> 00:52:19.542
as resources to get you acclimated with this process and also help along this journey because like,

00:52:20.371 --> 00:52:24.251
you know, it's not easy. It is not easy.

00:52:24.551 --> 00:52:27.351
Little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. That's how it,

00:52:27.411 --> 00:52:30.211
that's how it all works. It works itself out. So, yeah.

00:52:30.751 --> 00:52:36.511
So Danielle, thank you so much for joining us. And we, um, we appreciate you being here.

00:52:36.851 --> 00:52:41.931
Yes. I appreciate you too. I also, I want to, I wonder, am I introverted or

00:52:41.931 --> 00:52:43.671
extroverted? I just have to figure that out.

00:52:43.911 --> 00:52:48.851
So I have to take my own quiz. You're furrowed brow on me there, Ms. uh, Wonko.

00:52:49.791 --> 00:52:52.851
You could be somewhere right in the middle of the bell curve.

00:52:53.711 --> 00:52:56.271
I think it depends. I think it depends on the week, but no, I,

00:52:56.331 --> 00:52:58.171
I appreciate you as well, Danielle.

00:52:58.391 --> 00:53:02.831
And I want to give a special shout out to, to Mike L, uh, at one of your colleagues,

00:53:02.851 --> 00:53:07.191
who's a good friend of mine who actually helped us, uh, connect and get you here on the show.

00:53:07.431 --> 00:53:11.291
So thanks Mike. I know you've been listening, um, for, for getting Dr.

00:53:11.411 --> 00:53:14.851
Dick with us, uh, here on the balancing act podcast. and we will see everybody

00:53:14.851 --> 00:53:17.011
next time on our next episode.

00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:33.200
Music.

00:53:17.791 --> 00:53:19.311
Thanks so much for having me.

00:53:23.271 --> 00:53:23.811
Okay.

00:53:32.951 --> 00:53:37.471
Look for the Balancing Act podcast every week on your favorite podcast platform.

00:53:37.731 --> 00:53:41.791
New episodes drop every Tuesday. Thank you for being a part of our audience.

00:53:43.120 --> 00:53:56.585
Music.